soul

[lauralh]

I don't believe in a soul, as in, a part of a person that will keep on existing after a person dies, because it flies against the face of all reason. The only justification of it is that people are afraid of annihilation. I mean, I am too, but even people who believe that death is only the death of the body are afraid of that.

I was sick once and watching Jesus of Montreal, which has a really sad part in which an actor playing Jesus has an abcess or something weird - anyway he's dying and preaching in the subway, and everyone thinks he's crazy. Meanwhile I'm high on cold medicine and start having an epiphany of what death really, truly means, in this rationalistic system of belief I hold. Of course like most things you experience when you're high, I lost the actual meaning later, but the memory of it is still fucking scary.

Anyway. We can realize and comprehend things that don't actually exist, like love, beauty, justice, mercy. And these are still relative, but who is going to argue that this is ugly and this is beautiful. Sure it's culturally influenced, but not completely. When I say "soul" I refer to, obviously, the brain, but the right brain, the part concerned with these things instead of rules and order.

When I attended church the only thing I really enjoyed was singing in choir. Eventually I convinced myself about the other stuff, so it's not like I don't know what religious ecstasy or peace or spirituality is like. For those who don't, it's like reality with fewer words, a lot more abstract I mean. Sexual metaphors work best, I suppose, if you want to think of it that way, but with far less of a direct observable cause/effect action.

So, discount sex, money, and eating, and we have pretty much everything else that affects us emotionally. If nothing does, well, sorry. If something does, please tell me!

[Poll #484686]

edit: um, in case it wasn't clear, I just wanted to know what moves you on a spiritual as opposed to a physical level. change answers please

Comments

word.

[thingstouchme.livejournal.com]

we think the same about this.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

(then change your answer!)

[thingstouchme.livejournal.com]

ha ok I think I took it the opposite way that you meant it.

because I think of everything as physiological and having to do with energy, and nothing to do with an everlasting soul.

not to say that a rare song and witnessing a small thing that touches me or a string of coincidences doesn't make me feel like I may have something of a soul.. but again, its so physiological.

maybe I'm missing something

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

I think it's the energy that I'm referring to. the word Soul is a metaphor.

[perich.livejournal.com]

I've mentioned this in my journal before, but I forget where.

There's this old Chip 'n Dale cartoon where Chip and Dale, two chipmunks, discover this glorious thing called a peanut. Instead of an acorn, which only has one nut per package, this "peanut" thing has two. Chip finds one and cracks it open. "One for me, one for you," he declares.

This is probably the earliest example of what I can only call my "hard-on for capitalism." Whenever I read a story or see an example of two people trading to get exactly what they want, I just get this pleasant little burble of endorphins in the back of my head.

(Now that I think about it, Chip and Dale did this a lot. There's one cartoon where Donald Duck's trying to chase them out of his model train village - 'cause, you know, Donald just loves his trains - and spends 14 minutes chasing them, trying to smoke them out, siccing dogs on them, etc. In the end, he gives up and lets them live there. They keep the set clean and tidy, and in return Donald gives them a place to live. omg the invisible hand omg)

The idea that people can get exactly what they want without pleading, whining or threatening was amazing to me. It's probably what led me to Ayn Rand in my high school years and Austrian economics in college. I love the mutually enriching power of trade. I love the fact that cooperation and voluntary exchange makes everyone richer, instead of one person richer and one poorer. Even when I witness exchanges that don't benefit me personally (like two imaginary chipmunks and an imaginary pantsless duck), I become convinced that I live in a Benevolent Universe. Even if I don't believe in a god.

So that's where my soul's at.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

hahah! you are evil!

[perich.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the evils of mutually beneficial cooperation have been well-documented.

[tyrven.livejournal.com]

The things that move me on a "spiritual" level are really just abstractions of physical needs. Validation, for instance, satisfies base biological programming for inclusion which is rewarded with a dose of endorphines. I like endorphines, they make me feel good. Therefore I choose to do things that my body will reward me for.

Perhaps this is an unnecessary observation, like pointing out that the characters in a movie are simply projections of light, while missing the point of the metaphor. Nonetheless, this is pretty fundamental to my passions. I believe that hedonism is the standard of "good" because that is what we are programmed for; it is the engine that drives all other desires. Social institutions and beliefs tie into these needs. By understanding the fundamental IO of the body we can make become more efficient at finding "happiness" (chemical highs). It's not that different from the evolution of medication from trial/error to scientific evaluation and response.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

Jeremy, I already knew you had no soul.

[tyrven.livejournal.com]

And no heart!

[almosttruth.livejournal.com]

I dunno. I mean, I feel connected to the world and stuff. People, nature, animals - stuff like that. I believe in enlightenment, though, that could just be a fancy word for "pursuing knowledge beyond yourself". I empathize and feel for people and things of that sort.

So I dunno. Maybe it's just a part of being human.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

I think it's a part of "being human" but not necessarily a part of being Homo Sapien if ya know whattamean.

[ernunnos.livejournal.com]

Music. It's not sex (although it helps) it's not money and it's not eating. There's also the thrill of taking a corner at twice the yellow sign, or touching off a firearm. If you want to call whatever it is that responds to that "soul", ok.

[bewing.livejournal.com]

I'm sure you already know that I'm a stereotypical soulless scientist.

But I was wondering about those links? Did you happen to get them backwards? The Vargas print is ugly, and a prefab concrete block is beautiful?

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

did i not say "no one would say this is ugly and this is beautiful" in the right order?

[crumblingchaos.livejournal.com]

Just to clarify. I answered "yes" we do have a soul, because I firmly believe that our "soul" can keep living after our body dies. It's simply a matter of tranfering our "soul" to a new host.

This is an act of technology, and not of god.

In the end this is while were all going to DIE!

[chris.livejournal.com]

you know, i'd like to think there's some magical wheel that turns around and deeds we've done in this life affect the next one, and the soul gets passed on and reincarnated over and over in different forms until we finally reach enlightenment and ascend to the afterlife, but I just dont, beceause I really cant buy it.

Like you said, its just a metaphor that people have come up with, because there's obviously something fundamentally different about a living body than a dead one, and everyone wonders what it is. if there's anything that is a soul, its the complex and chaotic thought processes we have that make us different than machines. its why we make art, and sometimes do things that dont make sense. but its nothing tangible, and when you die, it dies too.