It's as simple as saying "Would you die for him/her?". If the answer to the question is "No." he/she should just move on and find the individual they would die for. Or, as Cary Tennis stated, take a flying leap and rid the world of his ilk. These are dark and terrible times and they're only going to get worse, if one can't figure out what one wants and how to go about getting it then the gene pool is better without 'em. I guess I'm a bit gothy when it comes to matters of love, good thing I'm happily married, many of the singles today are so socially retarded that I'd most likely have to go ahead become a heroin addicted homicidal maniac if I had to mix with them on a hook-up level... Anyone with two brain cells to rub together on the dating scene today that hasn't gone and fire-bombed a disco yet deserves a medal...
I guess for me the idea of dying for someone is complicated by the fact that I don't think my parents would survive it if I died.
If no one cared whether I died or not, then there are people I might consider dying for that I am not in love with.
I know I am in love with Patrick not because I would die for him, but because I can live with him. Happily. That's much more of a feat than dying IMO :)
Well, everyone is an individual, thank Peter Murphy, and for me the test of true love falls on whether or not I'd take a bullet for that person. It may not be that simple for some but when my mind meets someone's to the point of where I'd let them drain every drop of my blood if that's what they required to keep living, if that's what they wanted, and the feeling is vice versa, then it's a done deal.
Not that we're planning on a blood slurping suicide fest anytime soon, my boi and I love life, music, creation, our families and each other, almost as much as we love watching this world go down in a blaze of glory and smart bombs..
{reverse logic="please ignore"}So does this mean that secret service agents have to conform the ideals of 'true love' in order to do their jobs?{/reverse logic}
{just plain logic="please find something else to do"} No, it means you shouldn't take what people you don't even know type onto the internet so seriously.{/just plain logic}
Uh, that little tag at the beginnning meant that I wasn't taking it seriously.. reverse logic being stupid by its very definition. I don't really take anything seriously, on the internet or otherwise. The very ludicrousness of my statement should have tipped you off to that...
For me it has more to do with whether I can live happily with that person. I love my husband; that's to me made clear by the joy, support, and love he gives me every day, and less of whether or not in a given situation I would die for him.
I have too many responsibilities in this life to die... that also colors my consideration. It is true that it would be much easier for me to die than to live without Patrick.
Step 1: Find a high, relatively flat place with a gentle upward slope. Step 2: Bend your arms so your elbows form a 90-degree joint. Step 3: Using cardboard, balsa wood, duct tape or whatever materials are available, attach wings to your arms. Step 4: Run as fast as you can into the wind, holding your arms out. Step 5: Take a flying leap.
Following these instructions, it is possible that you will be the first in the world to achieve man-powered flight. On the other hand, you may join the thousands, perhaps millions of others throughout time who saw no essential difference between us and the birds. It would be a stupendous achievement and the whole world would gasp in amazement. You would receive a phone call from documentarian Ken Burns and from cable news producers; possibly, if business was slow in Harlem, former President Clinton would call to express his admiration for your achievement.
The same would be true if I gave you step-by-step instructions on how to fall in love and you carried them out successfully. But since I do not even know where to tell you to place the wings, or what slope to run at, or even if running would be a part of the exercise, I do not know where to begin (perhaps to will yourself into a state of love it would be necessary to sit under your not-yet-beloved's skirts blindfolded for hours or even days; perhaps you would be required to kiss her while magically suspended upside down in the air).
At first thought I do find it strange that I know of no such exercise. On the other hand, if ordinary people were to commonly take flight quite by accident and unawares -- if on a given day on a busy New York street you would see people at random lift off the sidewalks, briefcases, purses, baby carriages and all, and swoop toward the skyline in startled ecstasies of passion fulfilled, the novelty of the phenomenon might wear off. And there would always be those few unlucky ones, rooted to the ground, clamoring for a formula by which they too might magically and without warning take to the air. They would interview the fliers for tips, unwilling to believe that they simply did not know how it happened.
Also, amid all this spontaneous swooping, barrel rolling and loop the looping, concerted efforts to mass-produce the phenomenon might grind to a halt. If you could not will flight but had to wait for it to occur like a meteor across the sky, it would elude the calculations of aeronautical engineers and the step-by-step catechisms of how-to publishers and come to reside solely in the world of dreams and epiphany. Airline schedules would be even harder to keep than they are today.
But that is the place love occupies. It is not a mineral to be mined or a physical process to be flowcharted and then refined for yearly productivity increases. It is a sudden unexpected taking to the air, as miraculous and as unfathomable.
On the other hand, that doesn't mean that you can have no human relationships of enduring power and depth. It doesn't mean you can't love. In fact, if you look down, you may find that you are flying right now, just not as high off the ground as you expected.
i mean who is he trying to fool? I've made myself fall in love with people several times, and I can't believe i'm that much of an expert at controlling emotions.
He's saying you can't make it happen if it's not there, and although he's gone about it in a round about fucked up way in order to get a paycheck, he's right. You can't manifest love, it's either there or it isn't. You don't "kinda" love someone, it's one of the few things on this earth besides gambling and motor repair that's all or nothing. Well at least for some <--- that's a disclaimer... heh... Also um... please don't take me very seriously, I'm only ever semi serious.. but I do have a point even if I forgot what it was... mmmmm medication.... And in closing I'd like to add that The Distillers rule... Have a nice day...
well, see, I dunno, i mean sure I doubt I'd fall in love with someone I found annoying or whatever, but if I was that convinced of someone's worth as the letter-writer seemed to be, I could totally fall in love with the person in question.
Please to be defining "love," here, as used in context throughout both the article and your references to same.
'Cause, um, judging by your statements here, you seem to know quite a bit about the specifics of it, not just in your life, but in everyone else's as well. Oh, and if I may refer you back to your previous post... "Well, everyone is an individual, thank Peter Murphy, and for me the test of true love falls on whether or not I'd take a bullet for that person. It may not be that simple for some..."
Come again? You're rationally exhorting your ability to adhere to an 'individual' determinant for determining the existence of love (which would seem to place it in the 'personal and flexible' category, as something of a more concrete nature would naturally be more easily identifiable as such and much less slippery to grasp--among various people--conceptually) in one comment, and expounding upon an all-encompassing, rigid principles pertaining to said emotion/state/what-have-you [love] in another. Does not compute.
Hiya, Um... University Horseshit Psychobabble sucks ass. Okay? If you truly love someone, you love someone, if you don't, you don't. I'm not speaking for everyone, I speak for me. That is all. So fucking what. Now I'm not about to get into some stupid drama about what love is or isn't because it's different for everyone and I stated that. So whatever baby. I got mine, you just go and worry about yours okay? Okay! *snap snap snap*
University Horseshit Psychobabble? And here I thought I was just being silly. See, I read your post, and the "Well at least for some <--- that's a disclaimer... heh... Also um... please don't take me very seriously, I'm only ever semi serious.." part made it abundantly clear that you were only speaking of yourself, and also that I shouldn't take you clearly, and furthermore, that I would be a fool to do so, and further-thurthermore, pretty much everyone (except the Salon.com author, apparently) is aware that attempting to bring logic into a conversation on love is always a futile move.
And besides, I went to the University of Hogwash, not the University of Horseshit.
Never fear, I'm on a wee bit o' vicodin myself at the moment, and thus probably didn't inject enough irony at the necessary places. I tend to forget that vocal inflection doesn't carry well through text.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 01:16 pm (UTC)If the answer to the question is "No." he/she should just move on and find the individual they would die for.
Or, as Cary Tennis stated, take a flying leap and rid the world of his ilk.
These are dark and terrible times and they're only going to get worse, if one can't figure out what one wants and how to go about getting it then the gene pool is better without 'em.
I guess I'm a bit gothy when it comes to matters of love, good thing I'm happily married, many of the singles today are so socially retarded that I'd most likely have to go ahead become a heroin addicted homicidal maniac if I had to mix with them on a hook-up level...
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together on the dating scene today that hasn't gone and fire-bombed a disco yet deserves a medal...
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 01:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 02:42 pm (UTC)I don't think it's that simple.
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 02:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-09 03:46 pm (UTC)If no one cared whether I died or not, then there are people I might consider dying for that I am not in love with.
I know I am in love with Patrick not because I would die for him, but because I can live with him. Happily. That's much more of a feat than dying IMO :)
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 02:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 03:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 04:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 04:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 05:24 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 05:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-09 03:51 pm (UTC)I have too many responsibilities in this life to die... that also colors my consideration. It is true that it would be much easier for me to die than to live without Patrick.
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 02:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 02:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 02:53 pm (UTC)Step 2: Bend your arms so your elbows form a 90-degree joint.
Step 3: Using cardboard, balsa wood, duct tape or whatever materials are available, attach wings to your arms.
Step 4: Run as fast as you can into the wind, holding your arms out.
Step 5: Take a flying leap.
Following these instructions, it is possible that you will be the first in the world to achieve man-powered flight. On the other hand, you may join the thousands, perhaps millions of others throughout time who saw no essential difference between us and the birds. It would be a stupendous achievement and the whole world would gasp in amazement. You would receive a phone call from documentarian Ken Burns and from cable news producers; possibly, if business was slow in Harlem, former President Clinton would call to express his admiration for your achievement.
The same would be true if I gave you step-by-step instructions on how to fall in love and you carried them out successfully. But since I do not even know where to tell you to place the wings, or what slope to run at, or even if running would be a part of the exercise, I do not know where to begin (perhaps to will yourself into a state of love it would be necessary to sit under your not-yet-beloved's skirts blindfolded for hours or even days; perhaps you would be required to kiss her while magically suspended upside down in the air).
At first thought I do find it strange that I know of no such exercise. On the other hand, if ordinary people were to commonly take flight quite by accident and unawares -- if on a given day on a busy New York street you would see people at random lift off the sidewalks, briefcases, purses, baby carriages and all, and swoop toward the skyline in startled ecstasies of passion fulfilled, the novelty of the phenomenon might wear off. And there would always be those few unlucky ones, rooted to the ground, clamoring for a formula by which they too might magically and without warning take to the air. They would interview the fliers for tips, unwilling to believe that they simply did not know how it happened.
Also, amid all this spontaneous swooping, barrel rolling and loop the looping, concerted efforts to mass-produce the phenomenon might grind to a halt. If you could not will flight but had to wait for it to occur like a meteor across the sky, it would elude the calculations of aeronautical engineers and the step-by-step catechisms of how-to publishers and come to reside solely in the world of dreams and epiphany. Airline schedules would be even harder to keep than they are today.
But that is the place love occupies. It is not a mineral to be mined or a physical process to be flowcharted and then refined for yearly productivity increases. It is a sudden unexpected taking to the air, as miraculous and as unfathomable.
On the other hand, that doesn't mean that you can have no human relationships of enduring power and depth. It doesn't mean you can't love. In fact, if you look down, you may find that you are flying right now, just not as high off the ground as you expected.
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 03:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 03:18 pm (UTC)i mean who is he trying to fool? I've made myself fall in love with people several times, and I can't believe i'm that much of an expert at controlling emotions.
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 02:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 02:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-09 03:44 pm (UTC)Of course, since humans are incapable of really flying, it could be taken as very depressing, as well. *grin*
heh
Date: 2004-01-09 04:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 03:22 pm (UTC)Have a nice day...
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 03:37 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 04:21 pm (UTC)'Cause, um, judging by your statements here, you seem to know quite a bit about the specifics of it, not just in your life, but in everyone else's as well. Oh, and if I may refer you back to your previous post... "Well, everyone is an individual, thank Peter Murphy, and for me the test of true love falls on whether or not I'd take a bullet for that person. It may not be that simple for some..."
Come again? You're rationally exhorting your ability to adhere to an 'individual' determinant for determining the existence of love (which would seem to place it in the 'personal and flexible' category, as something of a more concrete nature would naturally be more easily identifiable as such and much less slippery to grasp--among various people--conceptually) in one comment, and expounding upon an all-encompassing, rigid principles pertaining to said emotion/state/what-have-you [love] in another. Does not compute.
Strewth!
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 04:41 pm (UTC)Um... University Horseshit Psychobabble sucks ass. Okay?
If you truly love someone, you love someone, if you don't, you don't. I'm not speaking for everyone, I speak for me. That is all. So fucking what. Now I'm not about to get into some stupid drama about what love is or isn't because it's different for everyone and I stated that. So whatever baby. I got mine, you just go and worry about yours okay? Okay! *snap snap snap*
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 05:30 pm (UTC)University Horseshit Psychobabble? And here I thought I was just being silly. See, I read your post, and the "Well at least for some <--- that's a disclaimer... heh... Also um... please don't take me very seriously, I'm only ever semi serious.." part made it abundantly clear that you were only speaking of yourself, and also that I shouldn't take you clearly, and furthermore, that I would be a fool to do so, and further-thurthermore, pretty much everyone (except the Salon.com author, apparently) is aware that attempting to bring logic into a conversation on love is always a futile move.
And besides, I went to the University of Hogwash, not the University of Horseshit.
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 05:37 pm (UTC)Word! You'll have to forgive me... I'm all hopped up on fever dreams and flu meds my dear... hehehe Further-thurthermore, heh...
no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 05:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 04:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 04:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 05:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-08 08:04 pm (UTC)no subject