some more depressing thoughts

[lauralh]

- last year steve said that the guy I was crazy for wasn't for me, that I needed a "passionate" man. well, i'm still waiting goddammit. (not that he wasn't passionate, just not about me. I literally have not dated a guy passionate about me in years. I almost said "a decade" but I'm not quite that old yet. Eight years.)

- I've realized that in many ways Seattle is my own personal hell. I mean, it's a city with a very high geekboy:girl ratio, but none of them are aggressive enough for me. "Water, water, everywhere..."

Comments

[gfrancie.livejournal.com]

I think you need to change tactics.
Remember emo boys do nothing for your sex life. They just want to write poems about you.

With geekboys you sorta have to pick through a lot of duds to get something worth looking into.
It is kinda like shopping at a sale.


I should introduce you to some of my boyfriends co-workers. They seem like fairly aggressive sorts.

[q.livejournal.com]

Damn straight.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

Geekboys do nothing for my sexlife. I don't date emo boys, at all. I date the opposite, boys who are afraid of having emotions for anything but their computers or job or whatever.

[gfrancie.livejournal.com]

Oh that is pretty damn useless as well.
I think you need to start importing guys.

[perich.livejournal.com]

Either I just started paying attention recently, or this is an interesting revelation that you've shared with me. Whichever way, the notion that

Girls want to be chased

and the ensuing conclusion

Sometimes a guy, even a nice guy, shouldn't take "no" for an answer

are interesting.

Please elaborate. Is this particular to you? To girls who go in for "geekboys"? To all girls?

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

Well. i like geekboys b/c they're smart and thin. Er, the thin ones are, anyway. But a lot of them are afraid of women.

Now for me, if I say "no" (or completely ignore all attempts at communication), it does indeed mean fuck off. But if a guy, say, asks me out for the next night and I say "I'm busy," that is not saying no. That's saying "Dude, learn some ettiquette and try a few more days in advance." Geekboys are pretty bad in this arena.

I do think a lot of women enjoy being pursued, though. I mean who wouldn't.

[shalifi.livejournal.com]

Are you saying that you'll say you're busy just because you want more notice? Or that you're being honest about being busy?

if and when I play these games, I'm honest

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

Really I'm always busy. Part and parcel of being a ROCKSTAR.

[perich.livejournal.com]

Well, chasing a woman puts the ball solidly in the woman's court, though. That's a sacrifice of control with which many guys are uncomfortable.

I know not to take "I'm busy" for an answer. My response to that is "when would work for you?" Didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday.

um, sure you didn't.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

"when would work for you?" is the WRONG WRONG WRONG approach.

Re: um, sure you didn't.

[perich.livejournal.com]

Really?

It puts the ball back in their court and prevents the guy from seeming foolish ("well, what about Tuesday? How's Thursday? A week from tomorrow?"). She can lie and say that she's never ever free, in which case it wouldn't have worked anyhow, or she can suggest a date. Now that she's suggested a time, it's her responsibility to at least honor that time.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

See, I don't keep every single appointment/party in my head for the next two weeks, but if I'm asked about a specific date I can say "I'm going to this party that day" or "I'm free that day." Otherwise I'd say "I'm busy that day but I'm free such-and-such a day to hang out." If a girl DOES NOT say that, why would you bother asking her, since obviously she wants you to try to pin her down.

[perich.livejournal.com]

It's the "obviously" that doesn't follow, for me.

Here's the way I read the scenario (ripped from the headlines, actually):
Monday:
Perich: "Hey, girl. Come over to my place on Thursday and let's watch a movie with popcorn and beer." I've made the offer.
Girl: "Sure, sounds good. See you then." She's interested and will show up.

Wednesday:
Girl: "Hey, Perich. I just realized I've got this big huge thing for this project I have to do."
Either she genuinely forgot about our prior engagement or she wasn't interested enough about our prior engagement to keep her schedule clear around it. I have to find out which.

I do this by saying:
Perich: "Damn. Well, all right, suggest a better time." If she's really interested, she'll come up with a time when she is free. If not, she'll pull some shit like, "I don't know; why don't you call me later?" Forget that noise.

If I'm reading this right, you're suggesting I should say:
Perich: "Damn. Okay, how about Saturday?"
Girl: "Yeah, sure, Saturday's cool."
The problem is that this doesn't solve the above dilemma. She can back out of Saturday just as easily as she backed out of Thursday. So I've learned nothing. She could still be interested-but-forgetful, or she could be uninterested-but-afraid-to-say-so.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

See in this scenario I would totally assume that she was backing out at the last minute. If she had a project she'd know about it ahead of time. If you accept a date then only like actual emergencies count to dispel them. And again, I honestly think that if it was a real emergency thing, she'd supply the time herself.

Interested-but-forgetful to me is not really good enough, I guess. Your mileage may vary.

The point is that if a girl WANTS to be chased you have to chase her. If she doesn't, she will supply a time that's good.

[scarlett723.livejournal.com]

I sort of agree. If I'm interested and something has come up. I'll say "hey, I can't make it Saturday, big project came up, how about next Thursday instead." If she wants you to be in charge, she won't suggest a time.

[perich.livejournal.com]

Exactly. So I'll prompt her to suggest a time. Then she either has to fish or cut bait, to use a completely inappropriate analogy. Either she backs up the interest she supposedly has by committing to a time, or she admits it was all a ruse and vanishes.

(I agree with your take, as well, but that's a pretty obvious one - if she wants to come over, then of course she's interested. I'm talking about those weird ambiguous times)

to quote a male friend on this subject

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

I mean, I'd definitely respond to 'I'm busy' with 'How about about (day 4-5 in advance)?' If that gets the 'I'm busy then too.' routine, well, fuck if she's actually interested. I'm not going to play that game... But saying 'When are you not busy?' is, yeah, accusatory. Backs her into a corner where a lot of people who be too embarrased to say 'I'm sorry, I'm just not interested.' and only causes problems.

Re: um, sure you didn't.

[shekb.livejournal.com]

It is?

Funny, it usually seems to work...

[jimbojones.livejournal.com]

The principle here is closer to "no means no, but if you never actually hear any girls SAYING 'no', you aren't being aggressive enough."

If you're trying to make sure you never cause a girl to say "no" because you don't want to be the kind of insensitive male aggressor that would force a girl to actually come out and say "no" then, yeah. Might wanna stop and rethink that.

[perich.livejournal.com]

See response above. I know better than to take "I'm busy" for an answer.

To elaborate: my issue is with the level of control that I'm giving to a girl if I let her apparent passivity call the shots. I've found that most geekboys (and I suppose I'm one) are intimidated / excited by girls who take charge. I know that when I'm doing all the work, it gets very boring, very quickly.

alternate, alternate.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

I hate calling all the shots too, but if I know a guy is capable of it I'm more likely to take turns.

[scarlett723.livejournal.com]

I am also in favor of alternating. Sometimes, I want to be in charge, sometimes, I'm feeling timid, if I've jumped you before or flirted before and I'm not that day. Try harder, I'm probably feeling timid.

[aefirpo.livejournal.com]

I think that's what we call 'arbitrary,' miss.

[scarlett723.livejournal.com]

It's really not. I'm pretty aggressive. Most of the time I'll probably hit on you if I know you're interested, but if I'm not, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try, it just means I'm not sure you're going to be receptive or maybe it just hasn't occured to me.

[aefirpo.livejournal.com]

WHAT'S THE FREQUENCY KENNETH