this should get a few people to take me off their friends list...

[lauralh]

This is a fairly interesting article (from NYT), about a disabled lawyer talking with a man who advocates infanticide of disabled babies... one of the arguments is that fetuses are aborted when they're discovered to be disabled or whatever, so what's the difference between that and afterwards? There's some interesting arguments put forth (eugenics, race, etc), but a lot of them make no difference to me. I personally think parents should have the right to kill their children for any reason up to age two or so. Or rather, I think there should be facilities (Kevorkian style) for that sort of thing.

And now for the required poll. Answers are all private, but feel free to chat in the comment section.

[Poll #102894]

Comments

[acidicvoice.livejournal.com]

I never really liked babies anyway.

[djpekky.livejournal.com]

To be honest with you, I have mixed feelings about it. There are certain circumstances in which I wonder whether the worst crime would be kill the child or let it live... Spinal or a baby born with no arms and legs, for example.

Peace!

Pekky

[fidelity-astro.livejournal.com]

i believe he's also in favor of euthanizing the disabled.

sort of like the nazis

[heraclitus.livejournal.com]

I am against the infanticide of most children once born. On the other hand I would argue that anyone who has a physiological disorder in their brain or otherwise such that they would never become legally responsible for their actions is not a sapient being. I would reduce it to a year, as well - children by the age of two have some glimmering of personality.

[jimbojones.livejournal.com]

Erm, they've got a VERY distinct personality by age two. It doesn't really take very long before one baby is NOT very much like another, if you're involved with them very closely. Nature plays a rather larger role in relation to nurture than a lot of people think.

(I still think retroactive abortion isn't necessarily a bad thing, though. Time-honored practice, that - older than any of us.)

[heraclitus.livejournal.com]

Kids that young are too protean - personality implies a certain amount of stability in composure that they don't have.

Patria potestas used to give a father the right to kill his child at any time, actually, even if the kid was a full grown adult. The Romans were strange folks.

[jimbojones.livejournal.com]

Depends on how you define "personality", I suppose. They're not likely to tell you a joke, but one baby is very much not just like another. They all have individual temperaments and dispositions, and they develop likes and dislikes VERY freaking early.

I just don't particularly see how that's germane to the topic of whether early infanticide can be permissible; any more than the idiotic discussions of whether or not a fetus is "human."

[das-prompt.livejournal.com]

Wow, what an amazing article.

On the topic of right/wrong, I must admit that I see both sides. I think I tend to lean towards letting the children live, though, not because of logical arguments, but simply on an emotional basis.

The debate itself, however, is absolutely great. I'm a big fan of extreme views, if only to stir the pot a bit. I think we need people who are willing to question even the most basic fundamentals of morality.

I like this quote the best:

''But,'' I say, ''his talk won't matter in the end. He won't succeed in reinventing morality. He stirs the pot, brings things out into the open. But ultimately we'll make a world that's fit to live in, a society that has room for all its flawed creatures. History will remember Singer as a curious example of the bizarre things that can happen when paradigms collide.''

[goatsupreme.livejournal.com]

Excellent article.

I think that as long as it's still a fetus, it should be up to the parent(s) as to whether or not to birth the baby. Even if it's late in the game and for whatever reasons - whether the baby will be disabled, or the mom decides she's not ready for a kid, whatever the reasons may be, the parent(s) should be the only one(s) making it.

As for infanticide, hmmm...that's getting a little sticky. I'd imagine that some sort of statute of limitations would have to be in effect. Maybe there could be some sort of refund policy. Full refunds within 14 days of delivery. Credit or exchange within 30 days.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

"keep only the ones you want, cancel anytime" ?

Re:

[goatsupreme.livejournal.com]

Act now and receive a free tote bag!

hmm...

[apethecarnie.livejournal.com]

i don't like it. infanticide, that is. don't let the kid go through the whole 9 months.

[wanton-bliss.livejournal.com]

Tastes great, less filling.

[krikket.livejournal.com]

this should get a few people to take me off their friends list...

It was actually stuff like this that prompted me to add you to my friend's list. It's a good read.

If you'd rather I didn't read, let me know...

[das-prompt.livejournal.com]

I started a new comment here, but it turned into a full post here.

[tyrsalvia.livejournal.com]

It's all cegan523's fault. i posted this to my own journal and started a thread as well.

http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=tyrsalvia&itemid=339677

My feeling is, we know about most of these sort of disabilities in the womb. If you don't want a disabled kid, get an abortion. If we couldn't tell until birth I might have more mixed feelings on it, but I don't understand why you'd go through with a pregnancy only to kill it *afterwards*.

[bewing.livejournal.com]

I care much more about the well-being of the mothers than I do about the kids. However, there is a very convenient bright legal line. When you are born, you become a citizen -- that is, a birth certificate is also a citizenship decree.
Citizens are basically guaranteed full protection under the law.
But we can mess around all we want, redefining the "rights" of non-citizens. So my position is completely "abortion on demand."
But once they are born, all you can do is give 'em up.
We all have our own moralities, and enacting any particular one of them into law, with no other law, scientific basis, or tradition to back it up historically won't work.