DISCUSS

[lauralh]

[Poll #530408]

edit: direct democracy== not having a representative democracy

Comments

False

[asabass.livejournal.com]

You'd need a reaaaaaly small population though.

Re: False

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

yeah, but um, we don't?

[skiplogic.livejournal.com]

i know the poll form is a little limiting but asking big political questions with yes or no as the answer is crazy.

it's just an opinion

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

YOU'RE CRAZY! THE WHOLE SYSTEM IS CRAZY!

Re: it's just an opinion

[skiplogic.livejournal.com]

i just doubt how meaningful a yes or no answer is to this question

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

you should feel free to explain your take on it here

[skiplogic.livejournal.com]

i think i'll just submit an answer to the poll instead :D

[langston.livejournal.com]

works for canada, and for general initiatives...

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

that's tim eyman's take on it too

[langston.livejournal.com]

I know where he lives. Wanna go egging?

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

Yes.

[langston.livejournal.com]

We'll have to get the carpool fired up and roll out to Mukilteo then. He lives on One Clubhouse Lane, on the corner. Blue house, white trim.

A friend of mine from HS lives next door...

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

Let's time it right; but I'm totally and utterly down for some citizen-on-citizen civil disobedience.

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

Ah, a Zaba (http://zabasearch.com/query1_zaba.php?sname=TIMOTHY++EYMAN&state=WA&ref=zaba&se=O&name_style=1) search clears this up. He (and his wife Karen) live around the corner from Clubhouse lane.

See? (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=47.888744,-122.312636&spn=0.002966,0.007522&saddr=6000+Club+House+Ln,+Mukilteo,+WA+98275&daddr=11913+59th+Ave+W+Mukilteo+WA&hl=en)

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

also canada wtf are you talking aboot? (http://electionresources.org/ca/#SYSTEM)

patent nonsense

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

Like Asa (kinda) said, most forms of gov't won't work on a large scale... this fine republic of ours might even work without a Federal layer.

Large overseeing bodies are fucking stupid. Abolish the feds, but keep the States United (huh?) It should be all about voluntary cooperation with the "State-Collective" (which would hopefully be more toothless than the UN) and that collective of states should be dissolved if/when it becomes obvious that a large scale is inevitably going to become a haven for corruption. If this "State Council" works, then great!

Re: patent nonsense

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

You might not believe in a State of any kind, but there has to be some kind of organizational system to enforce empathy and compassion, realistically (within these next 6 generations) you won't be able to trust monkeys raised by cable tv to help their fellow man.

So, taking that as a given, there are going to be decisions which make people unhappy. I don't like your ideas, you hate mine, but we have to live down the block from one another. Eyman... that fucker. He's just a grinning jackass face for the "kneecapping governments" agenda short-sighted corporations are trying to advance.

Re: patent nonsense

[bitchness.livejournal.com]

Sounds kinda like Libertarian 'minarchism'. I'm for keeping the fed as a unifying body with verylimited power, and giving the majority of legislating responsibilities to states.

minarchism, eh?

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

That's what I'm talkin' about!

Re: minarchism, eh?

[bitchness.livejournal.com]

Oh damn, just noticed the title of your LJ... Warren Zevon fans fucking rock.

I've been a happy Libertarian for about 10 years now, some of the members of the party are way kooky, but when you look at the Green party... well, they make the 'guns for tots' guy look almost normal.

Re: minarchism, eh?

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

I was actually all geared up to vote for Ralph Nader, but then I saw him speak. He came to Seattle and pledged, among other ridiculous things, to "protect children from the dangers of the Internet"

Re: minarchism, eh?

[bitchness.livejournal.com]

I watched that speech on tv.. wow I was so underwhelmed. He sounds so much more sane in soundbites on CNN.

The LP took their sweet time announcing a candidate last election, by the time I knew the guy's name I didn't have a lot of time to do my homework on him. I miss Harry Browne, the forme LP candidate, the guy's just freaking brilliant. I recommend his book, Why Government Doesn't Work, it's enlightening, as are the rest of his books, the titles of which escape me right now. Anyway, Badnarek creeps me out, so I'm hoping they find a better candidate for '08, or I'll just be forced to vote against the guy that scares me most again.

Re: minarchism, eh?

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

This was back in Summer of 2000... ah, the colors were brighter then. I was a 20-year old fool willfully ignorant of the realities of the Electoral College.

I might check out Harry Browne's books after Summer Quarter... no matter what, (all things being equal, the Ds and Rs and Ls and Gs still unimpressive in their tactics and platforms) Bullwinkle J. Moose and Rocket J. Squirrel are my 2008 ticket.

Badnarek is indeed, quite quite creepy. I'd really like to believe that a viable third party is going rise, making our pseudo-Parliament less of a joke.

Re: patent nonsense

[a-muse-d.livejournal.com]

excellent idea, Supreme Chancellor Palpatine.

reading comprehension

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

Right, like that part of the movie where he said "remove all power from the Senate, give it all back to individual planets!"

Star Wars comprehension

[a-muse-d.livejournal.com]

this fine republic of ours might even work without a Federal layer.

the Republic in Star Wars had no Federal Layer. and that was my point.

Let's argue on the same level

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

Me talk politics! Vrooom! K-pow! Wooooooooosh! The Capitol Building is like a space station! Wheeeee! The budget deficit is like Klingons! B-kow! B-kow! Stop those filibusters, Buck Rogers!

Then some stupid-ass cartoon icon.

Re: Let's argue on the same level

[a-muse-d.livejournal.com]

if you don't know how to use a metaphor, you're as stupid-ass as my icon. and if you don't think i use my icons on purpose, then you're even more of an ass.

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

Irrelevant

[wurmwyd.livejournal.com]

Hi There!

I love the idea of direct democracy, because it seems to me that representatives are influenced by corporations nowadays, and not by the voters, as they should be.

However, I feel that saying that a direct democracy would be some sort of perfect utopian hippie paradise is probably naive and stupid. Since 90% of any given population is naive and stupid.

Everybody should simply elect ME as "World Dictator for Life", since I'm always right about everything. [nods] :)

[perich.livejournal.com]

I don't want anyone who voted for Bush or Kerry in the last election dictating my politics, but they grossly outnumber people who voted otherwise. So I'd rather not be at their mercy and prefer a system that makes it harder for them to gain power.

[skipbreakfast.livejournal.com]

Presidential representation is totally different from the rest of elected officials.

[perich.livejournal.com]

Right.

... in case it's not clear, I was against direct democracy.

[ernunnos.livejournal.com]

And that's exactly the point of a Republic. By the time you take the will of the people and put it through a long involved process that effectively requires more than 51% of the popular vote to get things passed, and then subjected it to certain constitutional limitations, you hopefully have eliminated most of the really bad but still popular ideas.

Sometimes I wonder though if a simpler system of direct democracy that simply required a supermajority of the vote to pass a new law would work just as well, if not better. It seems to do a pretty decent job of keeping the Constitution to a reasonable size. And if as much as 49% of the people really think something is a bad idea, there's a very good chance it is, even if they're in the minority.

[interdictor.livejournal.com]

Direct Democracy and Representative Democracy are fine as long as a unanimous consensus is required for every election and every vote.

[sidspencer.livejournal.com]

blah blah blah efficiency blah blah blah emotional retardation blah blah blah coldness of logic blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah etc.

[herbaliser.livejournal.com]

OH SID YOU ARE SO SEXY WHEN YOU ARE ARTICULATE

[purgatorius.livejournal.com]

Shouldn't this poll elect representatives from your f-list, who would then decide on the issue?

[bewing.livejournal.com]

I think it's really funny that serious liberals tend to love the concept of direct democracy -- and they were the ones who kept pointing out that MORE THAN 50% of americans believed that Saddam and Bin Laden were in cahoots. Because the media and right wing politicians had insinuated it. Do you really want to live in a place with strict majority rule, when the majority is also clearly brainwashable?

In any case, I think our government could use a slight redesign. It was well designed for 250 years ago. Dictatorships are efficient. Therefore the Presidency was created as a dictatorship. The House was created to be a passionate mixture of every bad idea (and a few good ones) coming out of the populace. The Senate existed for the purpose of disposing of all the bad ideas quickly and quietly. But both the House and Senate were created as "representative" bodies -- because that was the only efficient method back then. It is no longer true. The House should be eliminated, and all its functions should be replaced with direct democracy. BUT ONLY THAT FAR, AND NO FARTHER.